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Riddles in the Dark: Digest 6

All Gollum All the Time on Riddles in the Dark Digest #6 Riddles in the Dark Digest co-hosts Dave Kale (of the Dave Kale World Domination...

All Gollum All the Time on Riddles in the Dark Digest #6

Riddles in the Dark Digest co-hosts Dave Kale (of the Dave Kale World Domination Network) and Trish Lambert talk Gollum, first talking about the now-answered-by-Andy-Serkis riddle presented in Riddles in the Dark episode 11, then sharing analyst, listener, and their own opinions about the actual riddle game that Dave and Corey talked about in Riddles in the Dark episode 12.

Conundrum #8:  Will the Riddle Game be one uninterrupted scene?

Download: .mp3 (right click and choose “Save As…” to download)


  1. Timdalf August 24, 2012 at 5:13 am #

    You probably know already but Weta is not the only outfit making somewhat pricey figurines and environments… Their main competitor is Sideshow Collectibles and they have been in this game for some time (Weta is a relative late comer). And, yes, I am one of those of low sales resistance and easy pickins who forks over the Shire dollars for a lot of these from both sources. There are yet others, but in my opinion these two make the best. And if you really want something nifty there is the NZ company Stansborough that actually made the Elvish cloaks and they offer (copies of) these for sale.

  2. R. Scot Johns August 25, 2012 at 7:54 pm #

    Not only will the Riddle Game scene not be one uninterrupted scene, I believe it will also contain a cutaway flashback to Smeagol’s back-story. If we assume that at least a (small) portion of the audience will not have seen the LOTR films, we must also presume there will need to be some “introduction” to Gollum. Remember, we are not supposed to know who Gollum is at this point, just as Bilbo does not know. Consequently, the filmmakers will need to present the scene as if it is our first introduction to Smeagol. And since the book offers the perfect opportunity via Gollum’s “remembering” his earlier life during both the daisy and eggs riddles, as well as playing riddle games in the “long long ago, before he was driven away.” We might go so far as to imagine a quick interpolation here of the now-familiar strangling of Deagol scene in order to help tie the two film series together, augmented by a bit of additional back-story of what came after as Smeagol is ostracized exiled from his clan and kin.

    I will even go so far as to say that some of these riddles will actually be “filmed,” in the sense of seeing some version of the answer visualized on screen during the telling of the riddle, such as “sun on the daisies,” or “two legs” – otherwise many in the audience will just be confused. Certainly we will see the fish jump, giving the answer to “alive without breath.” There is just no possible way we’re going to see Bilbo and Gollum sitting in his cave talking for thirteen minutes. That is theatrical suicide.

    I agree with Mark Fisher in thinking we’ll see at least one cutaway to Gandalf & Co. battling goblins as they attempt to escape from the tunnels. However, I DO NOT believe we will actually see them get out of the mountains, as this would completely undermine Bilbo’s sense of concern for their safety as he contemplates returning to rescue them (assuming, of course, that element of story makes it to the screen, which I am – it’s just too strong of a character moment for Jackson & Co. to ignore). We must be surprised along with Bilbo as he overhears and then discovers Gandalf and the dwarves. But then, that’s another topic.

  3. Michael Lucero August 27, 2012 at 8:49 am #

    Just one thing I wanted to comment on that I noticed halfway through the episode. Trish says that, well, we know the scene with Gollum is going to be thirteen minutes, but we don’t know if it’s going to be thirteen continuous minutes. Well, actually, we do. We know it was filmed continuously, as that’s part of what Andy Serkis said. Of course, they might break it up with cuts to what’s happening with Gandalf and the dwarves, or even something else, but I personally can’t see that happening. Just my two cents…

  4. Cindy Smith August 27, 2012 at 3:44 pm #

    I would say that while Gollum’s arc could take place over all three movies as Mark Fisher said, I still think we are going to get at least a glimpse of cute Gollum with Bilbo, probably when he is full and as happy as he ever is and is curious.

  5. Michael Lucero August 29, 2012 at 7:59 am #

    I disagree with Scot. I think Jackson is definitely not treating this film as if it will be our first introduction to Gollum. If he really meant this film to be viewed in the future before the LoTR trilogy, then he wouldn’t have included the frame narrative with Frodo. The whole point of including Frodo is to ease viewers into a less familiar story by including familiar faces. This makes no sense if the audience doesn’t already know who Frodo is; in fact, it makes things more confusing that way. So PJ obviously intends people to watch LoTR first, then the Hobbit films second.

    I also wanted to express my confusion at the way Trish and Dave were talking about the chapter one scene where Bilbo looks into a fire and begins to imagine himself as a great heroic figure. The way Tolkien wrote it in the book, it’s not a hallucination in any way, or even a vision, he’s really just imagining all these things. I’d say daydream would be a better choice of words. And I think the fire in question is not the fire in his hobbit hole but one he looks out his window and sees, if I’m not mistaken.

  6. Adam August 29, 2012 at 8:57 am #

    Hmm interesting, I think I’m the only one who thinks that Gollum and Bilbos Riddles will be after the Dwarves escape. To me this seems logical, and is the correct order to do it.

    I can easily see a long escape/action scene with the great goblin being killed, the dwwarves, gandalf and bilbo rushing off down tunnels, which close to its climax involves Bilbo banging his head and passing out in a quick and hurried moment, leading the audience to think ‘oh no bilbo!’ and the dwarves in a confused scene rushing on, and out the gate into the sunshine, perhaps seeing them collapse exhausted on a hillock or something, and then, I think at some point then gandalf look round, will do that half worried face McKellan is so good at and go ‘where is bilbo?’. Thats the point when we fade into the dark, Bilbos eyes blinking open as the camera effect, and the full uninterrupted Bilbo Gollum scene.

    This would allow Bilbo to come out later as in the books, and temporaily allow us to enjoy a very tense theatrical scene, without A) worrying about the dwarves, and without B) Jackson feeling he has left it too long between action scenes.

    This means the riddle scene will almost certainly include less riddles, but probably the originals, as a piece of fast and dramatic theatre between Martin and Andy.

  7. Chris Stevens (Felagundian) August 29, 2012 at 9:32 am #

    Although I think answer b (no changes to the wording of the riddles) would be most satisfying, I’m still leaning toward answer c. I won’t underestimate PJ’s willingness to tweak or even create new riddles if he doesn’t think the originals are “marketable” to a modern audience. I think i’m going with c for my pick with Corey, with the hope that b will be the real outcome.

    I’m trying not to be too sentimental about specific items (such as riddles)….it reduces heartburn in the long run.

  8. Tony Johnson August 31, 2012 at 1:18 pm #

    I think everyone may be missing a point. We know that the dwarfs were told the “orignial” story by Bilbo, so what about this.

    We follow the dwarfs out of Goblin-town up to the point that they escape and Bilbo joins them after his escape. He then tells the dwarfs and Gandalf the orginal tale from the early editions of the Hobbit. “with a break similar to the one of the breaks in The Princess Bride, as Bilbo tells Frodo that he knows this is not exactly as it happens.”

  9. Robagast the Green September 19, 2012 at 12:13 pm #

    I would have to answer B to the question.

    Trish you make a great point that you can accept some of PJ’s changes because he is making a movie and some elements of the book do not correspond to film. However; as you indicated, it is still frustrating when he steps over the line. Such as Faramir trying to take the ring or Sam leaving Frodo. What I do to force myself to accept some of the changes is to think of the films as the story told from the perspective of man. Just as LOTR is told from the perspective of the Hobbits and the Silmarillion is told from the perspective of the Elves. This maybe a bit of fooling myself but it does help.


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